Dr. Henry N. Wagner, Jr., Professor of Environmental
Health Sciences, Bloomberg School of Public Health, and
Director of the Division of Radiation Health Sciences,
School of Medicine, The Johns Hopkins University
Afternoon Keynote Address Nuclear Science: Implications for Medicine
DR. ROBERT
L. PFALTZGRAFF, JR.: It is very seldom in the
annals of conference development and participation that
things run on time and we have established, indeed,
a precedent by having something begin ahead of time
because I thought that it would be better to allow ourselves
some extra time for one of the most important topics
that we have on our agenda and that is nuclear medicine.
We have talked this morning about Atoms for Peace. We
have coined the term Atoms for Prosperity. And as Dr.
Wagner said to me just a few moments ago, perhaps we
ought to add to the perhaps yet another term, which
is Atoms for Health.
It seems to me that Atoms
for Health would be the appropriate title, if not subtitle
of what Dr. Wagner will be talking to us about this
afternoon. I would like to make just a few comments
about our speaker and to say that he was present at
the origins of nuclear medicine as a defined sector
of medicine. In other words he was, as Dean Acheson
put it in one of his books in his memoirs, present at
the creation. Dr. Wagner has sustained the momentum
of discovery that began in the 1950s and continued to
the present day, certainly continued into the sixties
and then into the 21st century.
He has promoted nuclear medicine at key U.S. teaching
and research centers not only here but also elsewhere
in the world, centers in the United States but also
elsewhere in the world. And then, of course, at his
own Johns Hopkins School Medicine, where for many, many
years, he was professor and told me that he is now working
what he called ‘24/7’. And I said, “Well”--
And he said, “Do you know what that means?”
And I said, “ I thought I did.” And he said,
“That means 24 hours/WEEK, seven months a year.”
So we’ve had quite a spirited conversation at
lunch here and I thought I would really want to share
him with you more than with myself at this time.
As measured by the extent
of his personal influence, Dr. Wagner has had an enormous
impact on the field of nuclear medicine. He has been,
for 40 years, in charge of the University nuclear medicine
program at Johns Hopkins and he has, in that program,
trained many, many nuclear medicine physicians and physicists
and pharmacists and technologists and so many other
specialists in the medical field who are now practicing
around the world beginning in the 1960s and continuing.
His influence continues and will continue for many,
many years to come.
So I would like at this
point to introduce Dr. Wagner as one of the founders
and pioneers of this very important area, nuclear medicine,
that came out of Atoms for Peace and we now have something
that we can add to our lexicon called Atoms for Health.
So, Dr. Wagner, welcome to this conference.
[applause]
DR. HENRY N. WAGNER,
JR.: Thank you, Dr. Pfaltzgraff. Colleagues
and friends, once someone introduced my by saying, “We
frequently have speakers who need no introduction. Unfortunately
this is not one of those times.” Another time,
in fact fairly recently, someone introduced my by saying
that, “Henry Wagner used to date Marie Curie,”
(Laughter), which is not true.
What you’ve heard
this morning is a clear example of how important it
is to have political leaders become involved in what
science produces in terms of technology and ideas. And
on December 8, 1953, science and politics met when Dwight
Eisenhower made his famous “Atoms for Peace”
speech. He said: “The governments principally
involved, should now begin to make joint contributions
from their stockpiles of uranium and fissionable materials
to an international atomic energy agency.”
“We would expect
that such an agency would be set up under the aegis
of the United Nations.” And the IEA was established,
was opened, six years later and since that time has
played a major role in nuclear medicine worldwide. As
I’ll show you in a minute, nuclear medicine technology
had been developed and expanded before World War II
with the work of Ernest Lawrence and John Lawrence in
Berkeley and then, after World War II with the invention
of the nuclear reactor.
In June of 1946, the first
shipment of Carbon 14 tracer was sent to the Bernard
Skin and Cancer Hospital in St. Louis. And, as you all
know, Carbon 14, P-32 and tritium are the foundations
of biochemistry. It was this talk, the “Atoms
for Peace” talk that translated the scientific
applications of these radioactive tracers to human health
studies. Dag Hammarskjold, the late Dag Hammarskjold,
Secretary General of the United Nations said that, “Only
he who keeps his eye fixed on the far horizon, will
find his right road.”
Now, what was the road
that lay ahead 50 years ago? Science is made by scientists.
And earlier that year, Dr. Jeff Holter, who had returned
home from Montana from the atomic bomb tests at Bikini,
held a meeting at the Hotel Davenport in Spokane others
and with 11 others decided to create a new medical society
based on the use of radioactive tracers. Thus, this
year, is also the 50th anniversary of the forming of
The Society for Nuclear Medicine. The first public meeting
was held on Saturday, May 29th, at the Benjamin Franklin
Hotel in Seattle, Washington.
What lay ahead and what
have we accomplished over half a century? A term that
is being widely today is molecular nuclear medicine.
Medicine is moving from an orientation primarily toward
organs and cells, to molecules. In other words, chemistry,
together with physics, is dominating molecular nuclear
medicine today. Using the photons coming from inside
the body to outside detectors, we can relate regional
molecular processes to disease, from organs to cells
to molecules.
Thermodynamics is another
very important area where the application of radioisotope
technology is being applied more and more in biomedical
research and clinical medicine. It assesses the regional
energy supply of organs and lesions. Kinetics is an
important part of nuclear medicine. We routinely carry
out studies in three dimensions in space and one dimension
in time, measuring the rates of regional molecular processes.
These regional molecular processes are used to develop
new definitions of diseases. Another area of nuclear
medicine is concerned with information transfer, that
is, communication among molecules and cells.
We know now that molecules
are continually circulating through the body where they
bump into receptor sites, stick there and bring about
a biological process. In addition to the founding of
the Society of Nuclear Medicine in the U.S. the year
1953 was when the structure of DNA was published in
Nature by James Watson, who at the time was 25 years
old, and Francis Crick, who was 35 years old. They published
their classic article on May 30, 1953 and pointed out
the genetic implications of the elucidation of the structure
of DNA. Subsequently, the Department of Energy played
a major role in the human genome project. Nuclear medicine
and the human genome projects are now coming together
more and more to their mutual benefit.
On September 19, 1983
in a talk I gave at Oak Ridge, I said, “The field
of nuclear medicine has been and will continue to be
dependent on the Department of Energy. No force in the
country or in the world has done more to develop nuclear
medicine than the DOE.” Many immediately think
of the National Institutes of Health when you think
about government involvement in biomedical science in
the United States. It is the combination of the orientation
of the national laboratories and the research that is
sponsored by the DOE that makes it possible for much
of the research that goes on at the National Institutes
of Health. I look at the NIH and the Department of Energy
as two hands that will together help advance the use
of radioactive tracers, that is, nuclear medicine technology
in biomedical science and in clinical medicine.
Here are some examples
of projects that the AEC/DOE has supported and have
spread into modern clinical medicine. At that meeting
in 1954 of the Society of Nuclear medicine, the invention
of the rectilinear scanner by Benedict Cassen from UCLA
was presented. This was a motor driven radiation detector
that moves back and forth across the body detecting
the photons being emitted and producing images such
as the distribution of radioactive iodine within the
thyroid gland.
Although the technology
has improved enormously, the basic principles of nuclear
imaging to examine regional biochemistry in the living
human body and in experimental animals have remained
the same. When I first entered the field of nuclear
medicine, in the late 1950s, we injected patients with
Iodine 131, which accumulated in the thyroid gland,
and used a Geiger-Mueller tube positioned at the various
points over the patient’s neck to record the accumulated
radioactivity. .
The regional counts were
used to produce what we called iso-count lines. For
example, a mass in the neck could be identifies as a
thyroid tumor. The fact that it was not accumulating
radioactive iodine meant that it was undifferentiated,
that is, it was a primitive type of cell, probably a
tumor. This was an early example of what we still do
for all organs of the body, that is, use the photons
emitted from injected radiopharmaceuticals to study
bio-molecular processes. .
At Johns Hopkins in 1958,
we build a modification of the Cassen rectilinear scanner,
which moved a radiation back and forth over the patient’s
body. Today we do not use moving radiation detectors,
and routinely combine the regional biochemical information
with anatomic information from a computed tomography
(CT) instrument..
As long ago as 1961, we
combined the nuclear medicine images of regional chemistry
and function with x-rays on which the nuclear medicine
images were superimposed. Thus, even then, clinical
decisions were based on the combining of anatomical
and biochemical images. .
The 1940s and 1950s marked
the birth of regional biochemistry in clinical medicine
to examine various organs of the living human body and
experimental animals. For example, on May 26, 1946 Hertz
and Roberts at MIT showed that radioactive iodine could
be used in the study of thyroid physiology and define
deseases of increased or decreased function of the thyroid,
based on measurement of the metabolic activity of the
gland. A regional biochemical process defined the disease.
If the thyroid was hyperactive, the patient is given
a higher dose of the radioactive iodine to diminish
its abnormally increased function. The same paradigm
is used today and is expanding into many organs and
lesions of the body.
The same agents used to
identify regional chemical processes can be used in
higher radiation doses for treatment. In December 7,
1947, a publication by Seidlin and his colleagues in
New York cause a tremendous interest on the part of
the press, when they described the use of radioactive
iodine treatment in treating functional metastases of
carcinoma of the thyroid.
The field of nuclear medicine
is based on the “tracer principle”, invented
by Georg Hevesy, to whom the Nobel Prize was awarded
in 1943. His Nobel lecture was entitled, “Some
Application of Isotopic Indicators.” Rosalyn Yalow
was awarded the Nobel Prize in 1977 for developing the
technique of radioimmunoassay, which made possible detection
of molecules present in the blood in extremely low concentrations.
Yalow shared the Nobel
Prize with Schally and Guillemin who discovered a hormone
called somatostatin, an example of a chemical messenger
involved in bioenergetics or information transfer. Also
in the 1970’s we saw the introduction of minicomputers
into nuclear medicine, to improve and quantify the data
from nuclear imaging of the body. Today’s biochemical
and anatomical imaging would be impossible without the
invention of computers.
One of the major fields to benefit from nuclear medicine
is pharmacology. As early as the 1960’s, imaging
of the blood flow to regions of the lung was used to
examine the effectiveness of a drug called, Urokinase,
that dissolved blood clots in the lung, a disease that
is often fatal. A series of lung scans showing the distribution
of blood flow to the lung was examined to provide objective
evidence of whether the drug was or was not effective.
An example today is in
the assessment of drugs for the treatment of Alzheimer’s
disease. In addition to assessing the symptomatic or
psychological testing of the patient’s response
to the candidate drug therapy, it is of great value
to have an objective, quantifiable, regional biochemical
signal.
The 1970s saw the birth of nuclear cardiology, which
today has become a routine, dominant part of cardiology,
another achievement that can be traced back to the “Atoms
for Peace” talk by President Eisenhower. The field
is based on an invention by Hal Anger working at UC
Berkeley, work sponsored by the DOE . His first scintillation
camera was shown at the 1958 of the Society of Nuclear
Medicine. It measured the photons coming from the body
by means of a large stationary scintillation camera
. He replaced the Cassen type of scanner in which a
detector moved back and forth over the regions of interest,
with a large detector that could measure the radioactivity
coming from large areas of the body simultaneously.
This made possible introduction of a time domain into
the examination of the spatial distribution of the tracer.
Technetium-99m, introduced
by the Brookhaven National Laboratory, provided the
large numbers of photons needed to produce interpretable
images of radioactive tracers in the heart. Its physical
properties made possible administration of large doses
safely to the patients. In 1960, the cover of the catalogue
of the Brookhaven National Laboratory advertised technetium-99m
generators, at a time when nobody had any idea what
it would be used for. Only three years later, Paul Harper,
at the University of Chicago, realized that the physical
characteristics of technetium-99m were perfect for nuclear
imaging. It was metastable, that is, it did not emit
particles in the process of radioactive decay, which
meant the radiation dose was very low. It emitted photons
of the right energy range so that the information could
get from the inside to the outside of the body. The
combination of the Anger camera and technetium-99m from
the National Laboratories made possible the development
of nuclear cardiology.
One can obtain images
of a radioactive tracer moving into the right side of
the heart, then into the lungs, and then into the left
side of the heart, and obtain quantitative time/activity
curves as the tracer passes from the lungs into the
blood vessels. If the patient has an abnormal connection
or a shunt between the right and the left ventricle,
characteristic time/activity curves are obtained. Today,
positron-emitting photons, such as fluorine-18 deoxyglucose,
oxygen-15, and nitrogen-13 ammonia are widely used in
clinical cardiology and research. For example, one can
examine the effect of gene therapy of coronary artery
disease in experimental animals in an effort to improve
the circulation. Here you can see the combined image
at the bottom.
In addition to cardiology,
an important use of nuclear medicine techniques today
is in the study of the brain. Again, the early studies
go back 50 years, when George Moore of the University
of Minnesota, using a Geiger-Mueller tube in the operating
room to locate deep-seated brain tumors that could not
be seen visually. .
Today, throughout the
world, hand-held imaging detectors are used during operations
to identify cancerous tissue from non-cancerous tissue.
In the brain, as in other organs, the fusing of biochemical
(molecular) imaging with structural imaging also goes
back to the 1960s. The rectilinear scans of the brain
of a patient with a brain tumor were superimposed over
an X-Ray of the skull obtained at the same time.
Another example of the use of nuclear medicine in therapeutic
drug design and development is I patients with Alzheimer’s
disease. Nuclear imaging is used to make accurate diagnoses
prior to treatment, and then is used to assess the effectiveness
of treatment in serial studies. Recently, at UCLA and
the University of Pennsylvania, radiotracers are being
developed that accumulate in the pathological lesions
believed to cause Alzheimer’s disease.
On May 25, , of 1983,
we were able to carry out the first imaging of a neuroreceptor
in the brain of a living human being. Neuroreceptors
are involved in the transfer of information from one
neuron to another. We were subsequently able to show
that the dopamine receptor decreased markedly with age
in normal persons, and that so-called pre-synaptic receptors,
called “transporters”, were characteristic
of Parkinson’s Disease. One could objectively
differentiate normal persons from patients with various
types of Parkinson’s disease.
Another major domain of
nuclear medicine is oncology, based largely on the findings
with positron emission tomography (PET) and an analogue
of sugar, fluorine-18 deoxyglucose. Again, returning
to 1953, the American Cancer Society wrote, “The
number of cancer
patients who would have been cured last year could
have been doubled by early diagnosis and prompt treatment.”
In the early stages most cancer cause no symptoms. Today,
cancer is being detected before symptoms occur, often
in persons identified as being at high risk of developing
cancer.
Clinical examination,
anatomical imaging, and histopathology play a major
role in medicine today, histopathology can only examine
small samples of tissue, tha must be removed by biopsy
or surgery. Molecular images with techniques, such as
PET, and examine the entire human body, examining a
variety of molecular processes For example, in patients
suspected of cancer one can detect the increased utilization
of sugar by the tumors throughout the body; then, one
can examine the degree of oxygen-supply to the tumors,
or their rate of cell division. All this information
can be translated in improved treatment, and monitoring
of its effectiveness.
What about the 1990s and
the future? One challenge is to increase productivity.
Today it rakes about an hour for a PET study. Many are
trying to reduce the examination time to 10 minutes.
Persons are now being
identified as being at high risk of developing cancer.
Approaches now being developed are to screen millions
of persons, identify those at special risk, and then,
together with tumor markers, examine those persons who
are at very high risk with PET scans so that the foci
of disease can be identified at a very early, treatable
phase. The goal is to move more earlier and earlier
into the diagnostic process.
Nuclear medicine, so very
much affected by President Eisenhower’s “Atoms
For Peace” has reached the prominence and importance
in biomedicine that it has today is based on the collaboration
between government, academia and the community hospitals,
using chemistry and cyclotrons as well as reactors to
produce radioactive tracers today, and fluorescent tracers
tomorrow. Whole body molecular and structural imaging
are now part of the health care systems throughout the
world.
Another child of the DOE
is the human genome program, which provides maps, or
the ingredients, if you like, indicating a high risk
of present or future disease in an individual. Radiotracers
help identify the phenotypic expression of these genetic
maps. Nuclear medicine, particularly what is now called
molecular nuclear medicine, provides incisive, in vivo
chemistry and physiology. It rests on an infrastructure
of physics and chemistry, and is an effective partner
with genetics and pharmacology.
Nuclear medicine provides
molecular markers for gene hunts. Instead of using symptoms,
such as forgetfulness of impaired movement, one can
use molecular markers in genetic studies. We can identify
asymptomatic persons at high risk for subsequent disease,
such as breast cancer. We can monitor the effectiveness
of gene therapy, with reporter genes, that can be administered
with therapeutic genes to be able tell whether the therapeutic
gene has been successfully transfected.
Nuclear medicine connects
genes, proteins and disease processes, for example,
the sickle cell gene that results in an abnormal hemoglobin,
which results in an abnormal destruction of red blood
cells. It can target therapy. The studies that we started
in 1983 of dopamine, serotonin and other receptors,
and transporters, provide targets for drug therapy.
If the physician is going to treat the patient with
chemicals, he or she should characterize the disease
as an abnormal chemical processes. .
The trunk of the tree
of molecular nuclear medicine, regional physiology and
regional biochemistry, based on technology and ideas
that began with Dwight Eisenhower’s “Atoms
for Peace” talk. The branches extend out into
other medical specialties, including cardiology, neurosciences,
and more recently to oncology.
The challenges. There
are hundreds of potentially useful radioactive tracers
that have been shown in experimental animals to be very,
very useful. Yet it still takes between five and ten
years to get an diagnostic, let alone a therapeutic,
agent through regulatory agencies, and, subsequently,
approval by insurance.
An economic problem is that diagnostic agents do not
provide the economic benefit for the pharmaceutical
industries that therapeutic agents have. This results
in their being hesitant to make the investment needed
to meet the requirements of FDA and Medicare. We need
to try to simplify regulatory requirements for the approval
of diagnostic radiotracers. To validate and show the
safety of a procedure that is only given to a patient
only once or twice, should be simpler than what is needed
for a therapeutic drug that is going to be taken for
the rest of the patient’s life. The challenges
are to continue to support the basic and clinical research
with collaborative efforts, particularly between the
DOE and the NIH. And finally, to form teams in government
labs, academia, and industry, working together to solve
problems. Thank you very much.
[applause]
PFALTZGRAFF:
Well, we now have an opportunity for some questions
for Dr. Wagner. We have a few more minutes. Who would
like to open the discussion? This is your opportunity
to get free medical advice as well so you might want
to think of it that way, too. So who would like to be
the first? Right over here, yes. And wait-- Excuse me,
over here, because there is the microphone for you and
then the second will be here.
TOM:
I’m Tom, ten-forty(?) National Council on Radiation
Protection-- Dr. Wagner I think it’s been recognized
for a number of years that one of the problems in nuclear
medicine is the lack of availability domestically of
many of the isotopes that are needed and especially
research isotopes, not just moly-99 that we get from
Canada and Europe. Could you comment on this problem
and perhaps discuss some paths forward in terms of improving
the national program?
WAGNER:
The first point to make is that the two areas in which
tracers are used are the positron tracers such as flourid-18
dioxyglucose, which is produced by a cyclotron and the
cyclotrons are usually located locally. But to decrease
the complexity and cost it’s very helpful if these
can be translated into single photon emitting tracers
that have a longer half-life. An example of the latter
is Iodine 123. Iodine 123 has a 14-hour half-life so
it can be shipped to distant sites.
I mentioned earlier that
there is a hesitancy on the part of industry to put
in to get these agents approved frequently because the
profit from the use of these agents is much less than
from therapeutic agents. And so that’s why you
really have to have continual participation of government
support in getting these things started. As you mentioned
earlier, most of the tracers come from Nordian(?), which
is in Canada and they are really are no really good
producers of these longer lived single photon agents
in the United States.
So I think this not only
limits research but it also limits clinical applications,
too. I think the DOE has played an important role and
I think those of us who work in the nuclear medicine
field have got to continually try to get the DOE to
focus to some degree on the biological and medical applications
as well as the areas that you heard about such as nuclear
energy or non-proliferation. So I think it requires
the continued activities of both the NIH and the DOE
and I think now the NIH fully recognizes the importance
of the tracers. So I think that efforts that you’re
carrying out to get the support of both the DOE and
National Laboratories in association of the pharmaceutical
industry working together.
PFALTZGRAFF:
I think we have another question from over here. Wait
for the microphone. And then, please identify yourself
as well.
BEN:
Ben ...(inaudible) from Los Alamos. Do you see any future
for neutron boron therapy?
WAGNER:
The question is about neutron boron, neutron capture
therapy, which for those of you who are not familiar
with it, it’s using boron, non-radioactive boron
as a tracer being attached to a particular chemical
that has the desired chemical properties and then activating
the boron with neutrons. I think it’s conceivable
that the advances that are being made in chemistry,
that is, in the development of improved tracer development
technology, biochemistry, organic chemistry, it’s
conceivable that boron neutron capture therapy might,
let’s just say, have a renaissance because of
the improved chemistry. But at the present time I think
it’s got a lot of hurdles to overcome.
PFALTZGRAFF:
Can we take another question from over here perhaps?
Or who else would like to intervene at this time with
a question? Yes, over here?
WALTER:
Alan Walter, Pacific Northwest National Lab. You indicated,
Dr. Wagner, that a lot of the previous work has been
on diagnostics and now there is more attention on therapeutics.
I think you mentioned indirectly itreum-90 on non-Hodgkin’s
lymphoma and what not. Could you comment a bit on what
you see for the future of alpha-emitters both from the
stand-- Is there a cart, a chicken and egg. Do we have
to have the source in order to underwrite the clinical
work that needs to be done? But it seems to have potential.
Could you comment on that?
WAGNER:
The desirability of the radiation effect varies with
the particular type of cancer. If you want to have a
very short range you can use an alpha-emitter or Iodine
125 or something like that. So you really have to look
at the range that you want to irradiate, that you want
to kill the cells over a certain range. It is what is
called a cross-talk effect, where the tracer’s
in one cell but you want it to irradiate a larger area.
So there’s room for all of these tracers. The
tracers are widely available. The nuclides are clearly
not available in terms that you could buy them but I
mean from a scientific standpoint they exist and people
have carried out studies.
So I do see a role for
alpha-emitters, absolutely, particularly if you’re
interested in affecting the DNA or RNA where you don’t
really want to get it outside of the particular cell.
So there is a role for all of these different types
of emitters depending on the range that you want to
irradiate. Now to make it crystal clear, the reason
that this is different from external radiation therapy
is that you’re using chemistry to get the tracer
where you want it to go. It is not like external radiation,
to make sure that that’s clear.
This area I think-- It’s
called radionuclide therapy is a major area of advance.
At the present time, the drug that you mentioned, the
itreum-90 tracer is used in patients with non-Hodgkin’s
lymphoma, which is a very common type of disease, type
of cancer. It is used where the non-radioactive type
of compound has not been successful or it’s been
successful for a certain period of time, but then the
disease recurs. So at the present time, when that fails,
itreum-90 is added to the molecule, which damages the
cells and has another affect on the patient’s
tumor.
PFALTZGRAFF:
We have time for one of two more. Yes, please.
GERKY:
Bob Gerky from the Idaho National Engineering Environmental
Laboratory. Alan asked the question about alpha emitters.
I have not heard much about X-Ray emitters from radioisotopes
that are very low in energy, can be anywhere from 6
kilovolts up to whatever, you know, 70 kilovolts. Is
there an application for such low energy X-Ray emitters?
WAGNER:
A lot of work has been done and is being done at Harvard
by James Adelstein and his colleague Dr. Cacese(?) on
using I-125 and acetane. There is definitely is a role
for doing that. I-125, which is very low energy photon
emitter, was compared with I-131 decades ago and it
was found that I-125 was, in that particular disease
was not as good as I-131, presumably because you wanted
to have this cross-talk affect. In other words, the
range was too short. But there are certain diseases
and they are being identified and characterized by the
Harvard group where--
Look up James Adelstein,
A-d-e-l-s-t-e-I-n, and you’ll see a whole bunch
of work on X-Ray emitters ...(inaudible) nuclides.
PFALTZGRAFF:
Another question, perhaps from over here. All of the
questions are coming from this side, isn’t there
anyone here who would like to ask a question?
WAGNER:
Can I mention one thing that I forgot to mention?
PFALTZGRAFF:
Please.
WAGNER:
I think it is very, very important and that is one of
the things that came out of the sessions this morning
is the need for education and I think that most people
today really do know what nuclear medicine is and they
know that it involves radiation. And I think that familiarizing
the nuclear medicine community with the problems of
educating the patients in these other areas such as
in nuclear energy is a very important source of an educational
process, better than ads.
I mean people-- In my
experience, patients have not really hesitated to have
any kind of diagnostic study based on a radioactive
tracer technique because they accept the fact that if
it is really personally benefiting to them, they are
willing to learn about it and do it. So I think that
the educational benefit of nuclear medicine should be
recognized as a means of familiarizing human beings
about radiation and its usefulness.
We have had to face the
fear. We have had to face the fear that you in nuclear
energy have had to face but it’s a lesser problem
for us because it’s an immediate benefit to them.
It is not as if somebody out there is irradiating their
neighborhood. But on the other hand, they could be--
You could get them-- There are at least seven thousand
nuclear medicine physicians in the United States alone
and I think to have them be involved in education of
the public about radiation is a very important role
for nuclear medicine and why there should be this Atoms
for Health and Education as well as Atoms for Prosperity
and Atoms for Peace.
__: Dr. Wagner, in one
bios that I was reading about you, you said the following,
this was a quote attributed to you, “Nuclear medicine
is a primary specialty field whose increasing obvious
worth would lead many bright young people into the field.”
I wonder if you could tell us something about what percentage
of young people going into the field of medicine are
going into nuclear medicine and what impact you think
they will have in the years ahead. How is that shaking
out (simultaneous conversations)
WAGNER:
Nuclear medicine has always been, in the past, in the
distant past, it has always been somewhat of a Cinderella
to radiology because the images were definitely not
as appealing as X-Ray images. But now a very important
thing has happened and that is the, because of the success
of techniques, such as positron tomography and other
techniques, the radiology community, organized radiology
if you like, now recognizes the value of nuclear medicine
and they are getting involved in it all the time.
So bright young people
are being very attracted to this field of radiology
which includes nuclear medicine, not restricted to radiology
but it now includes radiology. And among the most popular
fields for physicians particularly are fields such as
ophthalmology, radiology and less popular fields, unfortunately
are internal medicine and pediatrics, which requires
a lot of interpersonal contact. So it is too technologically
oriented but it does attract-- The advances in the technology
are so great that young people have become very interested
in the field.
PFALTZGRAFF:
We have time for one or two more questions. Yes, please,
from over here.
DOWNEY:
Jim Downey. Harvard University and I just want to ask
a follow-up on that, the growth of jobs because this
morning there was some question about the nuclear industry
in general and not necessarily people going in as doctors
but what about a nuclear engineer or perhaps an undergraduate
physics major that might want to pursue the field. Do
you see growth in the discipline that would support
that?
WAGNER:
There is a big shortage. It is somewhat different in
the fact-- Nuclear engineers have a problem in that
nuclear energy facilities are not being developed very
much. There is a big shortage today in chemists that
are involved in this technique. And the DOE and others
that this is a very good opportunity for chemists and,
in fact, some chemistry departments, not enough, unfortunately--
Chemistry departments in universities are getting more
and more interested in this, too.
So the opportunities are
tremendous and it’s really primarily a recruitment
and an educational problem. There’s a big shortage
of nuclear physicists in nuclear medicine and nuclear
chemists, of people but not positions.
PFALTZGRAFF:
One or two more questions before we move on. Who would
like to be next? This is your opportunity.
WAGNER:
If you have other-- My email address is hwagner@jhsph.edu
which stands for Johns Hopkins School of Public Health,
dot edu and I would be glad to answer any other questions
that you have.
PFALTZGRAFF:
You may be sorry that you gave that out now, but there
it is. Are there any more questions? Well, if not I
would like on our collective behalf to express thanks
to you Dr. Wagner for being with us. And I can only
say that having listened to you for the last hour or
so, I can readily see why nuclear medicine would be
a very popular field for medical students at Johns Hopkins
Medical School. So I really commend you for all that
you have done in this very important arena and for bringing
so much to us in such a short time this afternoon. Thank
you again, very much for being with us.